Jessica McLeod ([info]tiny_monster) wrote,
@ 2008-03-28 10:37:00
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mo' money, fewer problems
I have been thinking lately about comics and publishing and the internet and money. These thoughts have been in part prompted by some very interesting articles and discussions going on, and I wanted to link these (which many writers, artists, comics people or crafters on my friends list may find useful) and try to marshal my thoughts a little (of little use to anyone but myself).

So there was an interesting panel discussion of webcomics involving some of my favourite people, and this was written up and discussed at length on Fleen. (Make sure you read the comments.) A lot of this discussion involved money and whether you can live off webcomics. A few weeks ago I had read an interesting and provocative article by author John Scalzi, Unasked-For Advice to New Writers About Money. This contains much excellent advice and while it squashed my daydreams of quitting to a certain extent, it made me feel a lot better about having a day job. But traditional publishing is not necessarily the only (or even the most desirable) route for many of us. Kevin Kelly's article on 1,000 True Fans made me feel really optimistic about the possibility of living off my creative work-- I strongly suggest that anyone who dreams of this read the article (you might want to quickly read the Wikipedia entry on the long tail first). Then yesterday I stumbled on an old (2005) article in Publishers' Weekly on the transition of webcomics to print and the web as an alternative income stream (although they kind of skimmed over this-- publishers don't like to think about such nasty things).

Okay, that is the end of the useful part of this entry! Here are my thoughts.

I don't make comics because I want to make money. Making things-- comics, drawings, stories, stuffed toys, cakes-- makes me happy and gives my life meaning. Without this, I feel like less of a person.

But I really, really like making things, and I have a day job which is not about making things. My job is about typing, and filing things, and organising things, and I kind of hate it. I get an office to myself and a pretty good wage and I know I'm very lucky to have it, and I'm certainly not thinking about quitting anytime soon. But I'd rather be making things, and I can't help feeling that this time that I spend in an office is a waste. I try to remember that this is what I do to fund my life, this is what pays for my house and my car and eating Korean food and buying books and all that stuff. But I don't want to do this for the rest of my life, and my ultimate goal is to live off the things I make. I really thought I could compromise and teach classes about people who made stories but I can't. This is what I feel passionate about. This is what I want to do. It's just hard when you get home after seven and a half hours at a desk  to sit back down in front of a different one, and start working again. And it's frustratingly slow when you can only stand to do about an hour a night and a day on weekends. I want to be spending five or six days a week on this!

The article on 1,000 true fans really gives me hope. I think I have a few of these already (although many of them are my friends and may just be buying everything I do because they love me). Maybe if I spent more time producing products (t-shirts, prints, postcards) this number would grow. (I know I need to do this, but I find it hard to sit down and design products. I just want to make the stories.)

And then there's publishing. This seemed like a magic bullet to me a few years ago, but in reality most published writers and comic creators have day jobs. A lot of them are in the creative field (illustration, design) but oh man I would rather file meaningless documents all day than have some client send back my work saying things like "Can you make it a little edgier?" and "It's great, but it needs to be more energetic."

I'm not really coming to any conclusion here, I just felt like writing about my feelings and seeing what people thought.


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[info]winzig
2008-03-28 02:14 am UTC (link)
"oh man I would rather file meaningless documents all day than have some client send back my work saying things like "Can you make it a little edgier?" and "It's great, but it needs to be more energetic."

Oh God, it's horrible - There are few things I have designed that I am proud of, because clients ruin them with stupid suggestions :(

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[info]tiny_monster
2008-03-28 02:41 am UTC (link)
Exactly! And if someone suggests you file something differently, it doesn't matter. But when someone tells you to make a change to your art-- your baby!-- that MAKES IT WORSE... argh. It hurts too much!

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[info]boxer_the_horse
2008-03-28 02:25 am UTC (link)
Man, this is how I feel about my life too. Old Desky the Desk Job here is payin' the billz, but its also slowly leeching away my energy (part of that has to do with my ongoing procrastination issues and occasional lack of professionalism and the weird transgressive boredom both of these things lead to as well, though). One thing you can definitely take heart from though Jessica is that you've actually managed to send a few of those little balls of creativity out into the world. I regret being 25.5 years old and not having really put a single creative thing that was truly mine out into the ephemisphere (I just coined that term, you can use it as long as you imagine me yelling it on top of a mountain every time you use it).

I really do wish that I had access to the solidarity of the webcomics world that you do as well. That's pretty amazingly neat. Dudes like Ryan North out there bigging the little guy or gal up, supportive commenters on LJ etc etc. I suppose this all sounds like I'm jealous of you! I'm certainly not (because you deserve what you have with your humility, talent and work), but I really do think there's a lot you can take heart from and I hope you do. I buy your stuff because I *friend* you AND because its excellent.

*sigh* I need a community. We all need communities, watching 'Be Kind Rewind' made me realise how utopian the idea of small groups of people getting together to make wonderful things by themselves, for themselves is.

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[info]tiny_monster
2008-03-28 02:44 am UTC (link)
Thanks Jarrad! I am really grateful for what I have, I think I should have made that more clear. I have been so lucky, and I am indebted to people to dragged me up and showed me off. You're right, community is really important. Be Kind Rewind was tremendously inspiring to me, and it encapsulated why I will always make things, not for money or some outside measure of success but because it's fun and it makes me happy.

The lack of energy and drive is really a problem, and I do sympathise. Actually having Grug around has made a huge difference; it's lot easier to get up off the couch and draw when someone else is doing it too. Maybe you and Lisa should make a habit of making things together.

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[info]boxer_the_horse
2008-03-28 03:46 am UTC (link)
I think a lot of my problem is that I always want the first draft to be the last, the first version of the first song to be the one I'm playing for people. Being impatient and a perfectionist is a pretty rough combo.

Yeah, the lonliness of creating things is tough. I will try to do createy things with Lisa, especially now that she's here for a long time. I've also had quite a lot of success doing short-story writing in Cafes with people, so I should do more of that. I think we should have creating-stuff-parties, where you just come along and make stuff and hang out and have some wine.

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[info]tedprior
2008-03-28 04:13 am UTC (link)
But I mostly draw while naked.

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[info]finkenstein
2008-03-28 02:28 am UTC (link)
My creative job is sucking the life out of me!
I make things, but no one is interested in my artistic opinion. The other day my Producer told me they were going to make a toy out of a thing I drew, and I didn't get even the least bit excited because I know I didn't really have anything to do with it. Every inch of that thing was designed and directed by someone else and I was beaten to death with changes from the publisher and the original game company's feedback over and over and over again until I couldnt even look at it without feeling like I didn't know what the right thing to do was.
SIGH.
I think you should make things. I think you should try to do activities for rainy days more often and build a fan base. I think you should open an Etsy store and sell all manner of amazing shirts and prints and I think you should submit your comics to big publishers because I think you could make a living off of this, I really do.

A year ago when I first moved in with Eric I took a year off basically to try and become an illustrator, but the few jobs I had were very painful and I spent most of my time writing and painting a children's book. It was so beautiful to be able to wake up, turn on This American Life and paint paint paint. It felt wonderful. It wasnt a vacation, it was my job.
Now I can't say I wouldn't get sick of that. I did miss human contact after a while. But at the same time, I don't think I can work this back bending art job forever.
It's nice to have money, it's nice to talk to humans, but is it worth feeling like I want to die when I come home and not being able to work on art? I don't know.
It's all so complicated!

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[info]tiny_monster
2008-03-28 02:47 am UTC (link)
I know sweetie! I feel so bad for you :( You're right, people love Activities and the smart thing to do would be to work on that, make it regular, get the fan base and merchandise it. But I would rather be working on other stuff, longer stories, more subtle silliness... I find it really hard to come up with something with a punchline.

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[info]finkenstein
2008-03-28 02:55 am UTC (link)
Yeah, you shouldn't feel tied to a formula all the time either.I think though, that anything you do on a regular basis would be popular, punchline or not.

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[info]tedprior
2008-03-28 02:32 am UTC (link)
This is what we talk about almost every night, and obviously we agree, but I really think there's a light at the end of the tunnel for both of us. And most of it has to do with how hard we work, and they we try to make the best of any opportunity that crosses our paths.

I guess I don't really have much that is useful to say though.

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[info]tiny_monster
2008-03-28 02:50 am UTC (link)
You are a really big part of my success (such as it is)! I wouldn't work so hard without you helping to motivate me, and you help me in concrete ways too, listening to me and making suggestions and just letting me talk.

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[info]annettle
2008-03-28 02:34 am UTC (link)
...oh man I would rather file meaningless documents all day than have some client send back my work...

Me too, argh, that is like a nightmare to me! Fortunately there are other ways :)

I really like the Thousand Fans theory - which sounds like a martial art, hehe - it's encouraging and realistic.

If you're interested in more reading, I find Keri Smith's writings about creative careers to be interesting and worthwhile, I don't always agree with her 100% but she makes me really think about what I'm doing with my business and why. And if you're keen on webcomic-specific advice and discussion the Webcomics Weekly podcast is good listening.

Getting started while you're working is so hard! But you make such awesome stuff, I am sure you can do it :)

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[info]tiny_monster
2008-03-28 02:51 am UTC (link)
You are an inspiration to me! The Girl who Quit Her Job to Draw Cute Stuff :)

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[info]silverwing26
2008-03-28 02:38 am UTC (link)
I empathize with you greatly on this. I am another one who feels that creating is a part of my existance. I completely agree with your statement of feeling somehow like a lesser person if the creative process was to stop.

I've tried several times to turn it into something that supoort me.. or even itself. This has never worked for me, but it could very well be in part because I do not have a head for managing things of that nature. Manage people I can do... but figures.. time.. expenses.. nope! Well, :grin:, not when it comes to my art anyway.

I still keep making, and doing, and trying to master the balancing act though. I know it's different for me because I don't have a 'day job'.. but I guess I just wanted to say that....

There are a lot of people with the need to 'make and do' to feel the spark. And do not give up hope of making it your life. Your stuff is amazing!

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[info]tiny_monster
2008-03-28 02:52 am UTC (link)
Have you seen the film Be Kind Rewind? It really made me think about creativity and why we make things, and the place it has in our lives. I think we place too much emphasis on making money with our art, which is why I was hesitant to even bring this up. For me it's more a matter of buying time!

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[info]silverwing26
2008-04-21 02:33 pm UTC (link)
I haver not seen it yet, though I really want to. It sparked some ofthe simialar thought processes for me when I first heard about and watched the trailors. Thank you for reminding me of it again so I can go and get ahold of it. :)

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[info]boxbrown
2008-03-28 02:40 am UTC (link)
I know what you mean totally! All I really want to do is be able to make comics ALL THE TIME and not have some place sucking 8 hours of my daily waking life away.

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[info]tiny_monster
2008-03-28 02:58 am UTC (link)
Yeah, it's not the work I grudge, it's the time and energy.

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[info]angriest
2008-03-28 02:43 am UTC (link)
I really dug that article about finding 1,000 fans because when you do the maths it suddenly becomes genuinely possible.

I wish I had a job where I could even be a little bit creative.

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[info]tiny_monster
2008-03-28 02:58 am UTC (link)
Me too. But I try to be grateful for what I have-- I sit at a desk, with access to the internet. I don't work in a factory doing repetitive tasks.

You are one of the few people I know who really work hard for their creative passions and have a chance of making it because of that.

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[info]kamenkyote
2008-03-28 03:01 am UTC (link)
It's a boat many of us are on. You, I think, have a more likely time of it than some of us. I'm stuck in retail. A desk job sounds pretty nice to me. Your work has a much broader appeal. Look at that tattoo! Seriously, I think you have a chance at 1000 fans. I wish you the best of luck.

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[info]tiny_monster
2008-03-28 06:17 am UTC (link)
You're very kind! I think your work is excellent, by the way.

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[info]awcomix
2008-03-28 03:18 am UTC (link)
I really liked the 100 fans idea as it means you can really make work that is very specific and doesn't have to be appealing to everyone.
I don't draw to make money although like most I would like to be compensated for what I do even if that was 1c per comic per person, it's a gesture.
I also like the sex/cash theory
http://www.gapingvoid.com/Moveable_Type/archives/000889.html

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[info]tiny_monster
2008-03-28 06:17 am UTC (link)
Yeah, that's a good way to look at it.

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[info]tundraboy
2008-03-28 05:45 am UTC (link)
Yep, that's pretty much what I think about all the time too. I don't really care about money, it's only important because it's the thing that stands between me working and me making art all day. *sigh*

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[info]tiny_monster
2008-03-28 06:30 am UTC (link)
Now that I'm thinking about having babies and such, money is becoming a little more important to me, in that it means security. But that also means that I really, really don't want to keep coming to work every day.

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[info]joedecie
2008-03-28 11:35 am UTC (link)
Here's a thing. My girlfriend was unhappy in her design job, and wanted to try working for herself. She also wanted to have a baby. Her job was good, nice people, fair pay, but it wasn't making her happy. I said "go for it, leave, your happiness is most important" So she went out on her own. And also got pregnant. We are very happy, but we're poor and the baby is due in a few months. I asked Steph if I could mention this here on LJ and she said to tell you to be more prepared than she was. I guess the key is to do as much prep work as you can before you quit the day job.



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[info]tiny_monster
2008-03-31 03:48 am UTC (link)
My mum was really poor when she had me-- she was a single mum, looking after me and her sick dad. I never realised how poor we must have been until I got older, because I never felt poor. (Also I developed almost preternatural thrifting skills, which have served me well.) I was certainly a lot happier and more secure than a lot of the kids I knew who had wealthier parents.

I do agree though, it is hard to bring up a family without money. Grug and I are trying to pay off our debt before we jump into that, but I don't think we're going to have a lot of savings (unless we wait to have kids when we're 50!) so we will be scraping by too I guess.

Congratulations on your baby, I hope you post lots of pictures! May I ask what your girlfriend's passion project is? Does she have an internet business?

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[info]joedecie
2008-03-31 08:04 pm UTC (link)
She's a designer. But what she's great at is all that adobe illustrator stuff. She's designed some lovely wedding and party invites for friends, so would like to do more of that. She plans to have an internet business but the baby business is at the forefront for now, so she's doing any kind of freelance.

I too am thrifty, infact I'm drawing a comic about it right now. Well, in a minute anyway.

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[info]himynameisjamie
2008-03-28 06:14 am UTC (link)
I think I am taking a Kochalka approach about it in the way I am going to fire crap until something hits.

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[info]tiny_monster
2008-03-28 06:18 am UTC (link)
I think that can be good but also it's good to follow through with a project.

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[info]joedecie
2008-03-28 11:21 am UTC (link)
I once went part time on my day job in data entry to be creative and become a successful artist. Sadly what I found was that I had no self motivation and in the six months I was part time I produced far less work that normal. I just sat around in my pants.

I have friends who have creative jobs, and I'm jealous of them. But I stay happy by working as a carer and doing drawings in my free time; my job is worthwhile and my time is spent productively.

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[info]tiny_monster
2008-03-31 03:51 am UTC (link)
Yes! This is a real problem. I definitely think that having a job is a spur to creativity. Also, it sounds like your job (whilst one of the most difficult in the world, bless you for doing it!) would be fulfilling in many ways.

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[info]skullyflower
2008-03-28 12:14 pm UTC (link)
Oh man do I know what you are talking about.
My experience is:
1. Every time I try to make art work, I start to hate doing it.
2. Jobs are great for steady income but they generally demand too much time. And are soul crushingly boring etc.
3. When I'm not working at all, I can get really lazy about everything including the art.

I think it's a matter of balance. If you can find a way to support yourself with a part time job, which will also provide a little structure, and then let the creative stuff stay play/spirit feeding. It can make a little money, but it doesn't have to be all business.

Anyway, that's my goal right now. I want to try this theory out. I'll let you know how it goes. Part time work can be hard to come by. I'm lucky enough to be in a field where I can make good money free lance, but I'd much rather have some simple job with set hours.

Good luck! I hope you strike your own balance!

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[info]tiny_monster
2008-03-31 03:52 am UTC (link)
I think you are right on the money. I couldn't stand being an illustrator as my main job, it would kill me! Having a boring day job spurs me on, in a lot of ways.

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[info]faeta_comics
2008-03-28 02:18 pm UTC (link)
My wife and I have been thinking about this a lot too. One thing I think we've decided is that, sometimes, being comfortable is a crutch. Which isn't to say that we're quitting our jobs and living in a shack in the middle of the forest for the rest of our lives. We're just creative people who don't really see the point of committing ourselves 100% to working in jobs we hate.

We'd love to live off what we do, but until then, we're living a little frugally (but not uncomfortably) and working part time. So far, it's been pretty successful. In February, it gave me the time to write a novel. Not only that, I also (understandably) had a lot more energy working only three days a week. Now I'm working five days again (just for the next couple of weeks) to give my wife the time to quit and find something for her that's part time. Even if you never make a living doing what you love, I think the lifestyle alone makes it worth trying.

That being said, we don't have children or any responsibilities bigger than cell phones and cats.

Other than that, I think you're right about not choosing a creative field adjacent to the one that you love. Even doing what you love for a living has its pitfalls, if you depend on it for income. Einstein said that when he was working at the patent office that that was his "cobbler work" which allowed him to work on the theory of relativity in a no-pressure environment, and he often spoke of becoming a cobbler when he'd found success. For me, I think what I really want to do is something physical, like construction, so that at the end of the day I've gotten some exercise and can point at what I've made.

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[info]tiny_monster
2008-03-31 03:52 am UTC (link)
I think that is an ideal balance!

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[info]mollinda
2008-03-28 05:36 pm UTC (link)
You know what I would do? Work my ass off, build up an enormous stock pile of beautiful things to sell, open an etsy shop, or even your own shop front, then gradually drop your hours at your day job.

You know, if I could actually do art for a living, which I can't. I hate being told what to do... so yeah, this is why I'm going into teaching not freelancing or some other creative job, so I can tell other people what to do!

Your love for what you do really shows though Jess, and I know I've not been around a whole lot lately (damn you uni!) but I still heart your work as much as I always did and you deserve to be happy <3

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[info]tiny_monster
2008-03-31 03:53 am UTC (link)
I think that that is some smart advice.

And thank you very much! :D

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[info]mollinda
2008-04-01 05:46 pm UTC (link)
<3

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[info]abrassea
2008-03-28 08:58 pm UTC (link)
i know exactly how you feel... i'm the same way with music. i wrote and recorded an album in a month before i got my job, and have done very little in the year and a half since then. i clean houses, so i'm always exhausted when i get home and have a hard time getting the energy to work on anything. and on top of that, we're picking up more houses so i'm getting home later and having less time to do anything before my wife gets home. i'm aiming to record two songs in the next two weeks and put out a 5 song ep, but we'll see how that works out...

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[info]tiny_monster
2008-03-31 03:54 am UTC (link)
Physical work is unbelievably tiring. I used to work at a university library, which doesn't sound like much work but most of my time was spent on my feet, checking mountains of books in, shelving huge periodicals, etc. Every night I felt like I was going to collapse. It's incredibly draining.

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[info]abrassea
2008-03-31 12:39 pm UTC (link)
i used to get really drained when i worked at a comic shop, and most of my time was spent standing around doing nothing! between physical work being draining and dealing with people being draining, i don't know what's left!

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[info]joshpm
2008-03-29 02:36 pm UTC (link)
Jess this post is awesome and pretty helpful. I've been thinking a lot about making comics a living too, since after college I'm going up to the Center for Cartoon Studies in Vermont to do their 2 year masters degree in comics. So this was really helpful!

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[info]tiny_monster
2008-03-31 03:55 am UTC (link)
Thanks Josh, I'm really glad this was helpful to you! If I lived in the US I would definitely try to get into that program, it sounds amazing. Good luck to you!

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